Initiative Q – Nonsense spreading like a virus



Lately there has been a lot of buzz about Initiative Q in social media. Even people who usually aren't gullible to promote these kind of chain-letter type of schemes have been sharing invite links luring more and more people to do the same.

So what is this initiative of spam all about then?

According to the webpage of Initiative Q the aim of the company/people behind the scheme is to create "the payment system of the future". 


Joining Initiative Q requires an invitation to sign up. You only have to give your name and email address, no payment is required – yet.

People signing up and sharing invite links are rewarded with the future currency. Like the webpage says: "To get millions to join, we are giving away our future currency". As I'm writing this the webpage claims that the estimated future value of next spot would be about 19.000 dollars. And get this: that fat stack of dollars will be yours free of charge! Don't mind that it's just an empty nonsensical promise based on nothing.






Is it worth signing up?


Although there's no money asked (for now), and you'll probably only get your email address contaminated, should you trust the sincerity of this initiative? – I know I wouldn't.

I did not sign up but read through texts and information available on the webpage of Initiative Q. I also made searches online to check whether the company and the people behind the program were real.


Initiative Q is marketed as an attempt by ex-PayPal guys to create a new payment system instead of credit cards. Surprisingly that seems to be somewhat accurate marketing pitch. However, only one man is named on the website, an Israelian Saar Wilf, who in fact has a history with PayPal. According to Saar's LinkedIn profile he was a director at PayPal between 2008 and April 2010. He has also publicly presented himself as the man behind the concept of Initiative Q.

Wilf Saar on the left. Besides being an "ex-PayPal guy" he is also a poker player.


The registrant of the website of Initiative Q is an Israelian company SW Ventures LTD owned by Saar Wilf. There isn't much to be found about the company online. The only thing I managed to find was a patent application dated July 2018 for "system and method for locating and eliminating insects". – I guess it's the future of killing insects as well.





A lot of hype



The webpage is pretty much full of hype about this payment system of the future, boosted with some claims that are in fact ridiculous. There really isn't any explanation how this Q currency would actually work. – Well, at least nothing that would make sense or be reasonable.

Like scams usually do also Initiative Q makes predictions based on nothing and threaten that you would miss a chance of your lifetime by choosing not to sign up.



"It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Don't miss your chance!" 
– Yeah, that's a direct quote from the site.



The following chapter from the FAQ tries to explain what is the value of Q based on by explaining that there really isn't any base for the value. There's a certain resemblance to OneCoin ponzi scam.

"What is your estimate of the Q value based on?

The reasoning behind the estimated future value of the Q payment network can be summarized as follows: 
    1. The payment world is stuck with decades old technologies, since it is very difficult to get buyers to adopt a new technology that sellers don’t yet support and vice versa.
    2. Initiative Q solves this problem by compensating early adopters with future currency.
    3. This enables the building of a payment network that is far superior to current ones.
    4. A payment network that is both superior technologically, and widely adopted, would be preferred by both buyers and sellers.
    5. It is realistic to expect that such a network would eventually overtake credit cards, which account for $20 trillion in annual transactions.
    6. The total amount of money in the world is roughly half the world’s annual economic activity. The value of all Q currency could thus reach half of Q’s annual volume (i.e. $10 trillion).
    7. An alternative data point is the value of cryptocurrencies which peaked at nearly $1 trillion, despite hardly being used for real payments (nearly all activity is speculation).
    8. Therefore, the total future value of Qs could reach a few trillion dollars. Since there are currently 2 trillion Qs, the goal of one US dollar per Q is achievable."


As already said, Initiative Q asks no money for signing up. However, the future plans of the company seem to require astonishing piles of cash for the sheer existence of the payment system. 

An independent monetary committee will be chosen via voting by all members and stakeholders in the Q payment network (don't ask me how). The committee has a huge responsibility and also an option to issue new coins for the purpose of maintaining stability, and increasing adoption.

But why would anyone trust that Qs have any value? Well, the answer is to have "large reserves of USD" managed by the monetary committee. According to Initiative Q that huge reserve of dollars will be financed through selling Qs for USD and selling future grants of Q. 

I still don't understand why anyone in their right mind would exchange their dollars to those worthless Qs. There simply is no base for the value before there's a base for the value. Nevertheless, I have a pretty good guess who would be asked to contribute for the greater good to get that reserve of dollars piling up. – Wink, wink, give me your name and email address and I'll tell you.

Signing up is free and you'll be gifted with Qs, but the lunch doesn't seem to be free:


"As an additional means of instilling trust in the long-term purchasing power of Q, the monetary committee will continuously offer to buy Qs in exchange for USD (and other currencies) at the target rate of 1 Q per 1 USD. This will assure sellers they can confidently accept Q as a payment method.

This requires the monetary committee to hold large reserves of USD. The reserve balance will be publically available, assuring members that they can convert to USD at any time, thus supporting Q stability. As Q becomes a global standard, and trust in its long-term value increases, the reserve ratio can decrease.
 

These reserves are financed through two sources: 
    1. Selling Q for USD — Buyers looking to benefit from the advantages of the Q payment network need to add Qs in their account, which is done by buying them from the monetary committee.
    2. Selling future grants of Q — This option is available to accredited investors who believe in the long-term success of Initiative Q. They can purchase (at a significant discount) the right to receive Qs in the future, that will be released according to the network growth — similar to the new members rewards."


Furthermore, it seems evident that Q requires a worldwide heavy organisation to run its business. 

A chapter titled "Reversibility and dispute arbitration" describes how disputes need to be resolved by "trained representatives":
"The Q payment network can also include an automated dispute resolution process, with an easy to use interface that allows users to submit claims and upload evidence to support those claims.

Disputes that cannot be resolved automatically can be assigned to a trained representative, who investigates the claims to determine whether there has been a violation of the Q payment network regulations. If the agent finds that the seller was at fault, then the transaction can be reversed, while in cases where both sides acted appropriately (e.g. an unauthorized charge) the buyer can be reimbursed by Initiative Q. Such reimbursement can be paid from a global insurance pool financed from transaction fees."


Now, wait a minute, doesn't this all resemblance a lot how a credit card company or a bank would work. The only difference is that banks and credit card companies handle valuable assets whereas Initiative Q has nothing but worthless Qs to offer. All I see is future risks and lots of expenses to be covered and a massive capital to be raised.


Conclusion


As long as no money is required there's little to no harm done to the people signing up. However, I guess those email addresses could be stored for a later use to market other shady schemes. A database of email addresses belonging to gullible people could be a valuable asset to any scam. 

Despite being seemingly harmless Initiative Q has many red flags waving already. Although no money is asked for now, I see likely that if the company were to proceed with the concept, it would start asking for money from the participants. 

Personally I wouldn't sign up to this and neither would I recommend Initiative Q to anyone. In poker terms: Initiative Q has dealt the worst hand ever and I would definitely fold it.

Comments

  1. I got introduced to Initiative Q this week and I also saw nothing but lots of red flags. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to put them in English too:

    Their timeline (here) sounds almost like what OneCoin had:
    1. Gather network of people
    2. Develop technology (WTF? You're going to develop the technology AFTER you have the users?)
    3. Select where to launch first
    4. Find merchants (Well about time, eh?)
    The point where people could use their Q's will be 2 YEARS in the future.

    Also: To get full amount of Q's you need to get 5 more people to join and then "complete some tasks". Tasks which - if I may add - will be defined later. The pyramid for 5-fold member gathering can hold 14 levels before the population of earth is depleted. So don't keep your hopes too high for getting full compensation!

    Also: They're dealing (constantly decreasing) sum of 20 000 USD (based on the target value of 1 USD / Q) to anyone who joins - for free. How many people are allowed to join? This is just guessing as the limit has not been communicated so far, neither is the amount of people who have joined already. But a million members would result to 20 BILLION USD worth of Q's. Unless someone puts that amount of regular money into the system, there is going to be insane hyperinflation coming when the owners of the Q's will be using the Q's (or selling them). Why? Because the owners of Q's paid 0 USD for their Q's so they can therefore sell them for any price above zero to make profit.
    But let's assume the system will be filled with regular money (like their writings indicate). That money would need to come from the people who joined for their coins to have value that even tries to fight the inflation. And that means EVERYONE would need to buy their Q's for themselves with actual money. I doubt anyone was expecting that when they signed up?

    One more thing: It was said that they plan to "sell Q's". So be it. That would result to the Initiative Q founders pocketing 2 trillion USD (because the cap is 2 trillion Q's). Not bad paycheck!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We might as well call Initiative Q "Zimbabwe" and Qs accordingly Zimbabwean Dollars.

      As you said, they are making up value out of thin air – just like OneCoin.

      Delete
  2. The "you'll get if you join today" sum is $18,687 today. It was $19,056 when you wrote the blog post (7 days ago).
    When they hype was up, the speed on which new members were joining in was apparently much higher, I saw the price at $21,000 about three days before your blog post. The sum should go down by the number of people who joined, so we know that in those 3 days there were 5 times as many people joining than there have been during the last week. Therefore the speed of new pwoplw joining in is at 1/10th of what it used to be.

    I believe we can expect the "please send us money"-phase to start soon.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I recall that the sum was actually a bit below 19.000 dollars when I started writing the post. Later when I was finishing the post, the sum had gotten a bit above 19.000 dollars and I had to correct my post accordingly.

      Delete
    2. "the sum had gotten a bit above 19.000"

      That's bad. The sum that goes down all the time makes people rush to sign up. But knowing the sum can go up makes people wait instead.

      Delete
    3. The counter on the website seems to be scripted to show a sum that isn't really based on anything that makes sense.

      The sum goes down by one every second by refreshing the site. However, it can return to the initial sum after a while or also due a change of browser.

      Delete
    4. I went back to the site about an hour later and the sum on the counter is actually a bit higher than before. So it's basically like OneCoin's infamous Shutterstock video.

      Delete
    5. Currently the number starts from 18,235 and goes down to 18,220 at where is jumps again back to 18,235. Most likely they from time to time decrease the base number of that fluctuation, since the number DOES go down in larger scale.
      But it is like OneCoin "Split barometer" - they can adjust the speed at which it goes as much as they like.

      Delete
    6. The ticker has been at around 17,900 for about a week now. And I could swear that it was below that before.
      Either the amount of people joining in has reached all time low or then they have stopped decreasing the base number.
      Or both.

      Delete
    7. I have noticed the same while observing the ticker.

      The last Twitter post by Saar is dated 27 November. Coincidentally also the las Facebook post of Initiative Q has the same date.

      Maybe Saar is busy because of a poker tournament and can't get to update the ticker?

      Delete
  3. Funny detail. Google search shows an ad link to the site as the first search result. It's a referral link showing "Congratulations!
    You've been invited by Markus Raesilta"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I tried also Google searches by changing my IP location to other countries. It seems that Markus Raesilta has chosen to advertise only to us Finns.

      Delete
    2. Advertising your invite link in Google is super funny when you consider the idea of Initiative Q (and I quote from their web page):
      "there is one capability that is unique to the Q payment network. Since every new member must be verified by an existing member, who risks losing their reward in case of fraud, the Q payment network will build a network of trust relationships"

      Delete
  4. Interesting ending for the "please recruit more"-email sent by Initiative Q:
    "Initiative Q will only succeed if many people join. The more people invite their friends, the greater the likelihood of reaching the goal of each Q being worth around one US dollar.

    Welcome to the future of payments!

    -Q team.
    "

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What's stopping Saar Wilf from selling this "unique" concept like he sold Fraud Sciences Ltd to Paypal?

      Doesn't Wilf know that OneCoin already is the future of payments? Maybe he is going to sell his concept to Ruja and Initiative Q will be integrated to OneCoin? Wouldn't this be great?

      Delete
  5. According to Initiative Q's Facebook page the concept had reached 5 million signees on 27th November.

    Quoting:
    "Another important milestone hit this month – five million users! Currently, the countries with most Initiative Q users are Brazil, United States, United Kingdom and India.
    Thank you for believing in Initiative Q and joining us on this journey. Please invite those friends who have not signed up and together, we’ll create the future of payments!"

    ReplyDelete
  6. Google Trends shows how the interest towards Initiative Q first skyrocketed before going quickly down (I have included OneCoin just to give some comparison):
    https://trends.google.fi/trends/explore?date=2014-10-01%202018-12-02&q=onecoin,initiative%20q

    … And to put things in perspective:
    https://trends.google.fi/trends/explore?date=2014-10-01%202018-12-02&q=onecoin,initiative%20q,bitcoin

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Initiative Q - as interesting as OneCoin!"

      No seriously, comparing these two seems like a bad idea. Seems like. OneCoin was a Ponzi/Pyramid scheme from the day they started to sell educational packages. Initiative Q has so far only gathered personal information of few million people.

      But why comparison only seems like a bad idea is that the moment Initiative Q starts to ask for money, it turns into a Ponzi scheme. My expectation is that the "early adopters" will be allowed to buy Q-currency for half the price it is supposed to be worth. Assuming the coins can be sold, those selling first make double the returns from money that would come from the people buying the coins and this would - by definition - be a Ponzi scheme.

      Delete
    2. There's no sense in the whole initiative to begin with. I mean, first the company throws away Q coins for free, after which a huge amount of dollars would be needed to back up the delusional trust to the imaginary value of those coins.

      Where does that huge amount of dollars come from? SW Ventures LTD better start selling that insect killing thingy - and fast - to gather some serious dough.

      Delete
    3. After reading this article:
      https://medium.com/@gutjahr/fighting-fake-news-proof-and-probability-74009dfa8cdf
      … I began to wonder if Initiative Q was just a way to gather an enormous amount of data and a database about human behavior. I'd guess this database focuses on gullibility of people.

      If I'm right they truly seem to have succeeded to push the right buttons to conduct people to behave according to the game plan.

      Delete
  7. I opened my browser today and it had my previous tabs already open. Had to screencap this :D
    https://i.imgur.com/zkGe9JR.jpg

    ReplyDelete
  8. The ticker was at 17,900 on December 9th 2018 when I wrote here.
    Now it is at 17,551.
    That's almost full 2 months while it went down like crazy when this thing was in the headlines.

    It's probably genuine indicator of the rate new people are joining in, whatever might be the logic for decreasing the number.
    Silent.
    Cold.
    Dead.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. They also claimed recently to have an increase of one million members, going from 5 million to 6 million in about month.

      1 million x 17.500 dollars = 1,75 billion dollars

      I can only hope there's going to be less and less people stupid enough to believe in this, because at this point we can talk about plain stupidity.

      Alexa is showing a decline starting from January:
      https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/initiativeq.com

      I believe this stat from Similarweb is quite accurate. Look like this charade is about to end:
      https://www.similarweb.com/website/initiativeq.com#overview

      Delete
    2. Just an idle note:
      The "reward" today is $16,995. So during last 2,5 months it has decreased by 550. That's decrease of about $200/month, on par with what it was from December to February. With this speed the reward will be 0 somewhere around late May 2026.

      Delete
    3. The "reward" today is $16,151.
      Decrease of $850 over the course of 10 months.
      (They should be doing tons of stuff in early 2020 if their timeline was to be trusted.)

      Delete
    4. According to the timeline presented on the webpage, in late 2020 Initiative Q is supposed to proceed to "Accumulation of initial monetary reserves. Target: Sell future Qs to investors for at least 100 million USD."
      – So first Saar Wilf gives away trillions of dollars worth of Q's free of charge. Then he's going to ask for a lousy 100 million USD to be monetary reserves for all those Q's. He should have consulted with Ruja Ignatova before publishing that crappy timeline.

      Delete
    5. Exactly 8 months later the counter starts at $13,375 - decrease of $347 / month. Not very consistent so it might indeed go down as more people sign in.

      Needless to say that their timeline is getting nowhere.

      Delete

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